Comments on: PA Open Records Challenge: The Bad http://PassOpenRecords.Org/2007/10/04/pa-open-records-challenge-the-bad/ A Movement to Lift the Lid on Pennsylvania Government Sat, 22 Nov 2008 07:09:00 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.2 By: Carla J http://PassOpenRecords.Org/2007/10/04/pa-open-records-challenge-the-bad/#comment-1229 Carla J Thu, 29 Nov 2007 20:57:08 +0000 http://PassOpenRecords.Org/2007/10/04/pa-open-records-challenge-the-bad/#comment-1229 I applaude the beginning for the efforts in open records reform (That was sarcasm). I know first hand that the issue is trampling on our Contitutional Rights. I paid for records in a State and Federal Habeas Case. I recieved a letter stating to pick up the records. When I arrived. No records. I was told to wait for a letter in the mail. Under the Right to Know Law, I requested the Records in Pennsylvania. Well so much for the LAW, My RIGHT TO KNOW was DENIED. I guess you do NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO KNOW...EVEN IF YOU HAVE PAID! I have YET to get my money and had to involve the DOJ CHIEF of FOI Office to tell me the RECORDS did Not exists in the First Place! But.... I am still out of my money and STILL Do NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO KNOW WHAT HAPPENED....AT LEAST IN PENNSYLVANIA! Will this reform Work??? Not unless you change those who are supposed to ENFORCE IT! This is a JOKE! NEXT! I applaude the beginning for the efforts in open records reform (That was sarcasm).
I know first hand that the issue is trampling on our Contitutional Rights.
I paid for records in a State and Federal Habeas Case. I recieved a letter stating to pick up the records. When I arrived. No records. I was told to wait for a letter in the mail.
Under the Right to Know Law, I requested the Records in Pennsylvania. Well so much for the LAW, My RIGHT TO KNOW was DENIED. I guess you do NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO KNOW…EVEN IF YOU HAVE PAID!
I have YET to get my money and had to involve the DOJ CHIEF of FOI Office to tell me the RECORDS did Not exists in the First Place! But…. I am still out of my money and STILL Do NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO KNOW WHAT HAPPENED….AT LEAST IN PENNSYLVANIA!
Will this reform Work???
Not unless you change those who are supposed to ENFORCE IT!
This is a JOKE! NEXT!

]]> By: Tim Gruber http://PassOpenRecords.Org/2007/10/04/pa-open-records-challenge-the-bad/#comment-631 Tim Gruber Tue, 09 Oct 2007 09:17:18 +0000 http://PassOpenRecords.Org/2007/10/04/pa-open-records-challenge-the-bad/#comment-631 I agree with Dennis Gries on vital records, only I wouldn't stop at an index. Some friends and I have already started a lobbying campaign to have open access to Pennsylvania death records. Our proposal is to have a system similar to what they have done in West Virginia. It allows on-line access to death certificates of persons who died at least 50 years ago and were born at least 100 years ago. This eliminates the problems of identity theft. There has to be a point at which it is reasonable to say enough time has elapsed that privacy is no longer an issue either for the deceased or their immediate family. I would like to get in contact with Dennis and any others who are interested in this particular issue. The name we have taken is People for Better Access to Pennsylvania Historical Records. I agree with Dennis Gries on vital records, only I wouldn’t stop at an index. Some friends and I have already started a lobbying campaign to have open access to Pennsylvania death records. Our proposal is to have a system similar to what they have done in West Virginia. It allows on-line access to death certificates of persons who died at least 50 years ago and were born at least 100 years ago. This eliminates the problems of identity theft. There has to be a point at which it is reasonable to say enough time has elapsed that privacy is no longer an issue either for the deceased or their immediate family.

I would like to get in contact with Dennis and any others who are interested in this particular issue. The name we have taken is People for Better Access to Pennsylvania Historical Records.

]]> By: Douglas E. Hill http://PassOpenRecords.Org/2007/10/04/pa-open-records-challenge-the-bad/#comment-602 Douglas E. Hill Fri, 05 Oct 2007 14:58:18 +0000 http://PassOpenRecords.Org/2007/10/04/pa-open-records-challenge-the-bad/#comment-602 I represent the County Commissioner Association of Pennsylvania. The responders show the difficulties counties themselves have in meeting the requirements of current law, and why our testimony on the subject has indicated support for clarification (see our web site, www.pacounties.org and click on government relations / testimony). Where the requester was asking for a county executive contract, we are prohibited from asking reasons for the request, so could not narrow down the search. The office does not exist in most counties, but there are several county staff that might have a similar titles, for example Children and Youth Director or Court Administrator. So with little to go on the requester unfortunately gets routed to other places. The genealogy researcher runs into the problem we have in balancing individual privacy with public access. Although death records are state records, a separate statute (not open records law) prohibits disclosure except to close relatives, presumably in the name of protecting privacy. The court records requester rightly points out the disparate policies among counties, and in fact there are disparate policies within counties since each row office is independently elected, and has relative independence in developing records retention and search capabilities. We'd support mechanisms to help create better uniformity and are working with the statewide Administrative Office of Pennsyvlania Courts in this respect. Last, the sheriffs do background checks on gun licenses as a responsibility under state law so there is some open question whether the records are the state's or the county's. Law requires the owner, not custodian, of the records to determine how they are to be made available and again this example highlights a need to develop statutory and policy consistency. I represent the County Commissioner Association of Pennsylvania. The responders show the difficulties counties themselves have in meeting the requirements of current law, and why our testimony on the subject has indicated support for clarification (see our web site, http://www.pacounties.org and click on government relations / testimony). Where the requester was asking for a county executive contract, we are prohibited from asking reasons for the request, so could not narrow down the search. The office does not exist in most counties, but there are several county staff that might have a similar titles, for example Children and Youth Director or Court Administrator. So with little to go on the requester unfortunately gets routed to other places.

The genealogy researcher runs into the problem we have in balancing individual privacy with public access. Although death records are state records, a separate statute (not open records law) prohibits disclosure except to close relatives, presumably in the name of protecting privacy.

The court records requester rightly points out the disparate policies among counties, and in fact there are disparate policies within counties since each row office is independently elected, and has relative independence in developing records retention and search capabilities. We’d support mechanisms to help create better uniformity and are working with the statewide Administrative Office of Pennsyvlania Courts in this respect.

Last, the sheriffs do background checks on gun licenses as a responsibility under state law so there is some open question whether the records are the state’s or the county’s. Law requires the owner, not custodian, of the records to determine how they are to be made available and again this example highlights a need to develop statutory and policy consistency.

]]> By: Maverick http://PassOpenRecords.Org/2007/10/04/pa-open-records-challenge-the-bad/#comment-593 Maverick Thu, 04 Oct 2007 15:19:22 +0000 http://PassOpenRecords.Org/2007/10/04/pa-open-records-challenge-the-bad/#comment-593 So what happens now? Are the agencies that are denying access to records going receive some sort of training, or have to pay fines, or have ANY kind of consequence for failing to follow the letter/spirit of the law? It's frustrating to see so many examples of open records laws being ignored with no repercussions. So what happens now? Are the agencies that are denying access to records going receive some sort of training, or have to pay fines, or have ANY kind of consequence for failing to follow the letter/spirit of the law? It’s frustrating to see so many examples of open records laws being ignored with no repercussions.

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